John. I am surprised on the Piney Point program. I get the monthly newletter and it is full of graduation stuff. However while at APL as Ass't Marine Supt a C10 skipper said his CMA 3rd mate did not know how to steer.
Capt. Derek C. Kruger (M.M.)
· 1 year ago
John, I started out 45 yrs ago on tankers as a training O.S. and did my time there until I was tested for O.S. & later as an A.B. on cargo ships. During this time I kept learning the art of seamenship from others, as well as teaching myself to do better. Some years later having sailed Nationally and Internationally I decided to write for my third mate's license . Having obtained this I never stopped there and now hold a Master Mariner's Certificate/License.
Today as a ship's master I have come to see the good, fair, poor, and "God, what the hell is he or she doing here aboard this ship". Yes, the art of seamenship is a dying art that does not only affect unlicensed seamen. It affects some of the deck and engineering officer's that I have come across during my career at sea. These mariner's I am speaking about are not just what you see Nationally, but Internationally as well makes me wonder who let these people get on board the ships. (The Company & Manning Agencies)
When it comes to working with these good folks, you are told by the company that you are not here to re-invent the word "seamenship". Just work with what we give you !! My response to this type of comment is. " What happens if something horribly goes wrong while having to put up with someone that does not know the first thing about loading stresses. Or causes a major marine incident that ends up costing the company and the P&I Club one hell of a lot of money, not to mention Corporate Reputation". All because of the lack of experience that some mariner's should have gained over the course of time, or the shore side hiring practices used.
Comments most generally made by the company should this happen is; "Well Captain you should have know better than to give them that job " !!
To complain about these in-experienced officer's or crew (deck or engine) not being able to do the work assigned to them. If you say anything then you put your own job/position on the line. Very few companies or agencies will never accept their own short comings, when placing crew's on board. Therefore it is always the Captains fault, or so it seems.
The important thing to remember here is that there's some who are prepared to learn regardless. While there are others that think that they know more then you!! Then there are those that are here only for a pay cheque and don't mind it if you know it or not. So if the Company or the Agencies that hired them don't care, then why should you care !!
As a professional l mariner spanning a period of 45 years at sea, I still or do care and it is sad to see it come to this !!
Captain Derek C. Kruger Master Mariner
Captain Derek C. Kruger (M.M)
· 1 year ago
John, I would like to say thank you for your comments as to the article I deposited on your web site sometime ago, regarding qualifyng mariners in the art of seamanship. I would like to say that "Ship Masters" today are required to be not only good listeners, but good teachers as well. However when it comes time to give direction regarding the running the ship safely, you yourself must not forget what position you are hired for. "A Ship Master / Captain is solely and ultimately responsible for the safe operation of all merchant ships, or other vessels he commands." In a manner of speaking the buck stops here, for all of those in this command position regardless. Under the new rules of ISM and ISPS the Master/ Captain must answer not only to the company, but that of Governmental and out Agencies. Failure to run a ship in a proper manner could see the master face charges from actions not of his own doing. However there times as Master / Captain this can be a rewarding position. It can be the worse nightmare one can ever hope or what to experience, all be it the lack of seamanship that is dying art, due in experienced crew as stated before.
Please let me explain; Years ago there was training programs that sailors had to follow in order to advance upward within the industry. This is very rare to say the lease these days and now that the STCW requires the new generation of sailors to be licensed as "Bridge Watch Keeping Certificate" as the first step. What does this mean. It simply says that a person that intends to work on a boat / ship is required to "check mark" a questionnaire of not more then thirty questions / answers. A first year novas canoer could pass between paddle strokes, it is how easy. Now armed with this "BWK" certificate, the companies require you to sign these young canidates on as (ABS) able body seamen. None know anything regarding how to make fast a mooring rope, or how to apply a rope stopper. Yes, most not to knowing how to tie a nautical knot. The regulations also states that this certificate is not an "ABS Proficiency Certificate." Knowing this you are up against the system / company. Let something go wrong by giving these new sailors a job that they should know how to do but can not. Evently someone gets hurt because of their lack of knowledge of what they were to do. Now put yourself in a position that the company has placed you in, for accepting these new breed of sailors. You also accept liabilities that are far reaching should this injury result in death. I personally have come to experience this, all because one man did not do what he was told because of the lack of experience he was supposed to have. This lead to legal action and a Coast Guard Investigation that lasted for two years. Only at that time was the findings released that said that this deceased man died becaused of his our action and inexperience.
This system that created this problem ie; STCW and the Companies that go forward by placing you in a difficult position all be it because they really don't give a dam, as long as the job gets done. Nor do they come to the defence of the Ship's Master, as they / owners refuse to take blame for their short comings, is the way I see it.
I have also experienced officers that started out loading a ship that went wrong and came banging at your door to say, that they not sure why the ship is not going to the preloading plan, all because they did not follow the loading plan. This list / history can go on, but there is not enought room here to cover all incidences, so I will stop here.
I have being commanding ships at the age of thirty old, while holding a Master's Certificate at the age of twenty-six. I am now 62 years old and still commanding ships both very large, medum, and small. I can say with certainty that my retirement is just around the corner and I am darn glad of it. To be a teacher is one thing of which I truely enjoy, when you have those who really want to learn. There are and will be others that don't want to know regardless. If they make a mistake of which some do, you must remember "the buck stops at the Master's door to settle claims made against the owners, or by the grieving parties" !!
Captain Derek C. Kruger Master Mariner
Derek C. Kruger (M.M)
· 1 year ago
Corrected Text:
Please excuse the first text published, as the system automatically sent this before proof reading of same:
John, I would like to say thank you for your comments as to the article I deposited on your web site sometime ago, regarding qualifying mariners in the art of seamanship. I would like to say that "Ship Masters" today are required to be not only good listeners, but good teachers as well. However when it comes time to giving direction regarding the running of the ship safely, you yourself must not forget what position you are hired for. "A Ship Master / Captain is solely and ultimately responsible for the safe operation of all merchant ships, or other vessels he commands." In a manner of speaking the buck stops here, for all of those in this command position, regardless of what ship he is in command of. Under the new rules of ISM and ISPS the Master/ Captain must answer not only to the company, but that of Governmental and outside Agencies. Failure to run a ship in a proper manner could see the Master face charges from actions not of his own doing. However there are times as Master / Captain this can be a rewarding position to be in. It can also be the worst nightmare one can ever hope or want to experience. All be it due to the lack of seamanship that is dying art, due to inexperienced crew as stated before.
Please let me explain; Years ago there was training programs that sailors had to follow in order to advance upward within the industry. This is very rare to say the least these days and now that the STCW requires the new generation of sailors to be licensed with a "Bridge Watch Keeping Certificate" as the first step. What does this mean. It simply says that a person that is intending to work on a boat / ship is required to "check mark" a questionnaire of not more then thirty questions / answers. A first year novas canoeist could pass between paddle strokes, it is that easy. Now armed with this "BWK" certificate, the companies require you to sign these young candidates on as (ABS) able body seamen. Very few of them know anything regarding how to make fast a mooring rope, or how to apply a rope stopper. Yes, most do not know how to tie a nautical knot and need to be shown. The regulation also states that this certificate is not an "A.B.S. Proficiency Certificate." Knowing this you are up against the system / company. Let something go wrong by giving these new sailors a job that they should know how to do, but can not. Eventually someone gets hurt, all because of their lack of knowledge of what they were to do. Now put yourself in a position that the company has placed you in, for accepting this new breed of sailors as A.B.S.. You also accept the liabilities that are far reaching should this injury result in death. I personally have come to experience this. All because one man did not do what he was told, because of the lack of experience he was supposed to have. This lead to legal action and a Coast Guard Investigation that lasted for two years. Only at that time was the findings released, that stated that this deceased man died because of his our actions and inexperience. He left behind a wife and two children without a father and a husband.
The system that created this problem i.e.; STCW and the Companies that go forward by placing you in a difficult position, all be it because they really don't give a dam, as long as the job gets done. Nor do they come to the defence of the Ship's Master as they refuse to except or take the blame for their short comings, is the way I experienced it.
I have also experienced officers that started out loading a ship that went wrong and came banging on my door, only to say that they not sure why the loading is not going to the preloading plan. It became clear that they did not follow the loading plan as approved by the Master. I will stop here as there is not enough room to cover all incidences, nor do I want to think about it all.
I have been commanding ships since the age of thirty years old, while holding a Master's Certificate at the age of twenty-six. I am now 62 years old and still commanding ships, of which some being very large to medium, and smaller. Looking ahead I can say with certainty that my retirement is just around the corner, and I am darn glad of it. To be a teacher is one thing of which I truly enjoy when I have those who really want to learn. Therefore I take endless hours to show seamen and officers alike. I never kept a close mine and I am prepared to listen to all, regardless of age or experience. However there are others that don't want to know regardless this makes me wonder why I even try. Seamen regardless of rank or position will make mistakes as we all have done this before, I included. You must remember that "the buck stops at the Master's door whether to settle questions or claims made against the owners, or by the other grieving parties" !!
Captain Derek C. Kruger Master Mariner
John
· 1 year ago
Capt. Kruger, I received this reply via email from Captain John Denham;
Unfortunately I understand exactly what you are concerned about. With a similar background I expected bigger and better things as I rose from bunk room to the pilot house and quit chipping paint and started plotting star sights. My tutors the 6-8 Masters of yester- years told me of their life at sea. The conditions were bad and most crews except for a few were equally bad. My only solution was to set an example and make sure I was knowledgeable in my reports. If I was the problem I would rather hear it from the crew than the boss. Management has a different view of those at sea. As Assistant Marine Superintendent I could only listen to the captains and mates and then scheme how I could help their cause. The door always opens when something bad happens, just make sure you are not caught on the outside when it closes. Stupid people do dumb things, but the smarter they get the more complicated their errors become. Until I was captain and totally responsible I had no idea how little authority I actually had. I learned that authority could not do it alone. I took it upon myself to became a listener, teacher and example and hoped that some crew members realized that as capatin I was also part of the crew. I never succeeded with everyone, but I did get a number of conversions and survived three ships as captain and team leader. It was my way to survive and still keep being paid. Derek, at 82 I wake almost every night remembering a situation I handled poorly and now I see clearly, how I could have handled it better. Regards, John
Capt. Derek C. Kruger (M.M)
· 1 year ago
Corrected Text:
Please excuse the first text published, as the system automatically sent this before proof reading of same:
John, I would like to say thank you for your comments as to the article I deposited on your web site sometime ago, regarding qualifying mariners in the art of seamanship. I would like to say that "Ship Masters" today are required to be not only good listeners, but good teachers as well. However when it comes time to giving direction regarding the running of the ship safely, you yourself must not forget what position you are hired for. "A Ship Master / Captain is solely and ultimately responsible for the safe operation of all merchant ships, or other vessels he commands." In a manner of speaking the buck stops here, for all of those in this command position, regardless of what ship he is in command of. Under the new rules of ISM and ISPS the Master/ Captain must answer not only to the company, but that of Governmental and outside Agencies. Failure to run a ship in a proper manner could see the Master face charges from actions not of his own doing. However there are times as Master / Captain this can be a rewarding position to be in. It can also be the worst nightmare one can ever hope or want to experience. All be it due to the lack of seamanship that is a dying art, due to inexperienced crew as stated before.
Please let me explain; Years ago there was training programs that sailors had to follow in order to advance upward within the industry. This is very rare to say the least these days and now that the STCW requires the new generation of sailors to be licensed with a "Bridge Watch Keeping Certificate" as the first step. What does this mean. It simply says that a person that is intending to work on a boat / ship is required to "check mark" a questionnaire of not more then thirty questions / answers. A first year novas canoeist could pass between paddle strokes, it is that easy. Now armed with this "BWK" certificate, the companies require you to sign these young candidates on as (ABS) able body seamen. Very few of them know anything regarding how to make fast a mooring rope, or how to apply a rope stopper. Yes, most do not know how to tie a nautical knot and need to be shown. The regulation also states that this certificate is not an "A.B.S. Proficiency Certificate." Knowing this you are up against the system / company. Let something go wrong by giving these new sailors a job that they should know how to do, but can not. Eventually someone gets hurt, all because of their lack of knowledge of what they were to do. Now put yourself in a position that the company has placed you in, for accepting this new breed of sailors as A.B.S.. You also accept the liabilities that are far reaching should this injury result in death. I personally have come to experience this. All because one man did not do what he was told, because of the lack of experience he was supposed to have. This lead to legal action and a Coast Guard Investigation that lasted for two years. Only at that time was the findings released, that stated that this deceased man died because of his our actions and inexperience. He left behind a wife and two children without a father and a husband.
The system that created this problem i.e.; STCW and the Companies that go forward by placing you in a difficult position, all be it because they really don't give a dam, as long as the job gets done. Nor do they come to the defence of the Ship's Master as they refuse to except or take the blame for their short comings, is the way I experienced it.
I have also experienced officers that started out loading a ship that went wrong and came banging on my door, only to say that they are not sure why the loading is not going to the preloading plan. It became clear that they did not follow the loading plan as approved by the Master. I will stop here as there is not enough room to cover all incidences, nor do I want to think about it all.
I have been commanding ships since the age of thirty years old, while holding a Master's Certificate at the age of twenty-six. I am now 62 years old and still commanding ships, of which some being very large to medium, and smaller. Looking ahead I can say with certainty that my retirement is just around the corner, and I am darn glad of it. To be a teacher is one thing of which I truly enjoy when I have those who really want to learn. Therefore I take endless hours to show seamen and officers alike. I never kept a close mine and I am prepared to listen to all, regardless of age or experience. However there are others that don't want to know regardless, this makes me wonder why I even try. Seamen regardless of rank or position will make mistakes as we all have done this before, I included. You must remember that "the buck stops at the Master's door whether to settle questions or claims made against the owners, or by the other grieving parties" !!
Captain Derek C. Kruger Master Mariner
Eric Hilgendorf
· 1 year ago
Would someone mind commenting on the benefit (or assumed one) of attending a maritime school as opposed to entering the field as an ordinary seaman? I have been told that those who enter maritime service from an academy or trade school are the least desirable in hiring for the very reasons that you give above. I am 36 years old and I desire to go to sea. I have a masters degree in meteorology, and I aspire to work as a deck officer some day. I am hearing two very different points of view, one from schools and one from friends who have worked in the industry. What route would you suggest to me.
Thanks,
Eric
John Denham
· 1 year ago
Eric: Each process has its benefits. Some schools are better than others and each has its alumni association ; that is beneficial. If I were you, I would write to each school and tell them what you want to do...don’t mention why because they are not interested, besides they are not hiring you. Basically they want your money.
Regardless of route to the bridge, it is up to the individual. I am a mixture of both routes and feel my few achievements were because I was available at the right time and was qualified; later, experience helped. Education today is more important than in the past because the industry is geared to electronics and automation. At 36 years of age, I don’t think you’d be happy in a college unless you had a role, other than just a student. That is a possibility. See what offers you get from academia.
There are many opportunities to get started. Pick up copies of Maritime Reporter, Pacific Maritime Magazine, or Marine News they have all kinds of jobs etc. Piney Point, Maryland is an excellent union operated school and produces a good product. On the internet try “Maritime Jobs.com” there are jobs today.
Again if were you I would start by getting a job with MSTS (Navy) or some non union employer and try the business for a test period. You may not like it. The glamour is mostly gone; conditions are good, but the work is either hard or boring. Cruise lines are hiring constantly. You’ll need to get seaman’s papers and that alone may discourage you. Lastly you can hang around the waterfront and ask questions maybe some one will feel sorry for you and give you some better advice. And, if you still want to go to sea, don’t give up, the opportunity is there if you persevere. JGD
—thye ar4e not hiringuas e theyare not interested.ou wanto .The answer to your query is up to you. There are factors that one should consider and decisions one must make. At age 36, you are probably too old to be accepted for enrollment in a state or federal maritime school. But that does not mean you should write to each one and shop. Nor does that mean I recommend a school. First academies provide a type of education that academically prepares one to pass the license exams and provide an encounter with most factions of the business. The comradeship is outstanding and its connections are cherished and can be enjoyed for years. As a undergraduate, you of course acquire a college education; even the C students are smarter than most. But in you case, wasted.
On the other hand with your background one can apply for a job with MSTS for example pr go to Piney Point and pick up the basics and apply yourself at sea for several years and see if this is what you really want to do. If you are married then you have an additional problem trying to keep a marriage alive. Life at sea is not difficult except when you are not busy. A god student can pass the time in study and practicing new skills, but that precludes being one of the guys and be sociable.
John Denham
· 1 year ago
Excuse me---disregard the last part, it was an earlier draft. JGD
Capt. Ed
· 1 year ago
A friend of mine wanted to go to sea, and he's now enrolled in PMI's 2 year entry level to mate program. He's getting a heck of a lot more experience and training (classroom and onboard) than I ever did coming up through the hawse, and it sounds like in a couple years he'll have a sweet job with the company that is sponsoring him. Not a bad way to get started as a new guy.
John Denham
· 1 year ago
Merchant mariner training. There are two concepts (1) teach the subject (2) teach the exam. If you can't pass the exam the knowledge is of little use. Employers look at the license and endorsements and hope the ticketee has skill; that is one reason why there is so many complaints about cadets. Regardless of the concept, it is the teacher that makes the course. An experienced mariner teaching a subject he knows will in most cases produce a good student, if the student wants to learn. Aboard ship, there is no other alternative; no place to go and litttle else to occupy ones' mind. Several of my shipmates could recite the Rules of the Road verbatim but did not have clue as to what they meant. Company cadets were probably the best trained depending on the tutors. The ATS in WW11 had an excellent program but no teachers. USMOS produced some of the best mariners-officers because they were qualified motivated seaman before they entered the program and all teachers were professionals.
Eric Hilgendorf
· 1 year ago
Thank you all so much for your responses. I suppose, as often is the case, that it is not surprising that there are no simple answers.
Based on your responses, I will investigate PMI.
One point that has me a bit unsettled is the idea that the "glamor" of sea life is no more. I admit that all jobs have negative sides. Has automation really taken the attraction away from sea life? Tugs and service vessels seem to be areas where there might be daily challenges that keep the job interesting. Am I mistaken here? I suspect that the more interaction one has with land and other vessels, the more interesting the work, as opposed to long voyages on autopilot. If any of you were entering the workforce now, which area would you enter for the greatest satisfaction and enjoyment?
By the way, I am an insulin dependent diabetic, so any military related employment is out. I just received my MMD, so at least that hurdle is out of the way.
Again, I truly appreciate your thoughts.
Eric
Capt. Derek C. Kruger (M.M)
· 1 year ago
Corrected Text:
Please excuse the first text published, as the system automatically sent this before proof reading of same:
John, I would like to say thank you for your comments as to the article I deposited on your web site sometime ago, regarding qualifying mariners in the art of seamanship. I would like to say that "Ship Masters" today are required to be not only good listeners, but good teachers as well. However when it comes time to giving direction regarding the running of the ship safely, you yourself must not forget what position you are hired for. "A Ship Master / Captain is solely and ultimately responsible for the safe operation of all merchant ships, or other vessels he commands." In a manner of speaking the buck stops here, for all of those in this command position, regardless of what ship he is in command of. Under the new rules of ISM and ISPS the Master/ Captain must answer not only to the company, but that of Governmental and outside Agencies. Failure to run a ship in a proper manner could see the Master face charges from actions not of his own doing. However there are times as Master / Captain this can be a rewarding position to be in. It can also be the worst nightmare one can ever hope or want to experience. All be it due to the lack of seamanship that is dying art, due to inexperienced crew as stated before.
Please let me explain; Years ago there was training programs that sailors had to follow in order to advance upward within the industry. This is very rare to say the least these days and now that the STCW requires the new generation of sailors to be licensed with a "Bridge Watch Keeping Certificate" as the first step. What does this mean. It simply says that a person that is intending to work on a boat / ship is required to "check mark" a questionnaire of not more then thirty questions / answers. A first year novas canoeist could pass between paddle strokes, it is that easy. Now armed with this "BWK" certificate, the companies require you to sign these young candidates on as (ABS) able body seamen. Very few of them know anything regarding how to make fast a mooring rope, or how to apply a rope stopper. Yes, most do not know how to tie a nautical knot and need to be shown. The regulation also states that this certificate is not an "A.B.S. Proficiency Certificate." Knowing this you are up against the system / company. Let something go wrong by giving these new sailors a job that they should know how to do, but can not. Eventually someone gets hurt, all because of their lack of knowledge of what they were to do. Now put yourself in a position that the company has placed you in, for accepting this new breed of sailors as A.B.S.. You also accept the liabilities that are far reaching should this injury result in death. I personally have come to experience this. All because one man did not do what he was told, because of the lack of experience he was supposed to have. This lead to legal action and a Coast Guard Investigation that lasted for two years. Only at that time was the findings released, that stated that this deceased man died because of his our actions and inexperience. He left behind a wife and two children without a father and a husband.
The system that created this problem i.e.; STCW and the Companies that go forward by placing you in a difficult position, all be it because they really don't give a dam, as long as the job gets done. Nor do they come to the defence of the Ship's Master as they refuse to except or take the blame for their short comings, is the way I experienced it.
I have also experienced officers that started out loading a ship that went wrong and came banging on my door, only to say that they not sure why the loading is not going to the preloading plan. It became clear that they did not follow the loading plan as approved by the Master. I will stop here as there is not enough room to cover all incidences, nor do I want to think about it all.
I have been commanding ships since the age of thirty years old, while holding a Master's Certificate at the age of twenty-six. I am now 62 years old and still commanding ships, of which some being very large to medium, and smaller. Looking ahead I can say with certainty that my retirement is just around the corner, and I am darn glad of it. To be a teacher is one thing of which I truly enjoy when I have those who really want to learn. Therefore I take endless hours to show seamen and officers alike. I never kept a close mine and I am prepared to listen to all, regardless of age or experience. However there are others that don't want to know regardless this makes me wonder why I even try. Seamen regardless of rank or position will make mistakes as we all have done this before, I included. You must remember that "the buck stops at the Master's door whether to settle questions or claims made against the owners, or by the other grieving parties" !!
All Comments
Today as a ship's master I have come to see the good, fair, poor, and "God, what the hell is he or she doing here aboard this ship". Yes, the art of seamenship is a dying art that does not only affect unlicensed seamen. It affects some of the deck and engineering officer's that I have come across during my career at sea. These mariner's I am speaking about are not just what you see Nationally, but Internationally as well makes me wonder who let these people get on board the ships. (The Company & Manning Agencies)
When it comes to working with these good folks, you are told by the company that you are not here to re-invent the word "seamenship". Just work with what we give you !! My response to this type of comment is. " What happens if something horribly goes wrong while having to put up with someone that does not know the first thing about loading stresses. Or causes a major marine incident that ends up costing the company and the P&I Club one hell of a lot of money, not to mention Corporate Reputation". All because of the lack of experience that some mariner's should have gained over the course of time, or the shore side hiring practices used.
Comments most generally made by the company should this happen is; "Well Captain you should have know better than to give them that job " !!
To complain about these in-experienced officer's or crew (deck or engine) not being able to do the work assigned to them. If you say anything then you put your own job/position on the line. Very few companies or agencies will never accept their own short comings, when placing crew's on board. Therefore it is always the Captains fault, or so it seems.
The important thing to remember here is that there's some who are prepared to learn regardless. While there are others that think that they know more then you!! Then there are those that are here only for a pay cheque and don't mind it if you know it or not. So if the Company or the Agencies that hired them don't care, then why should you care !!
As a professional l mariner spanning a period of 45 years at sea, I still or do care and it is sad to see it come to this !!
Captain Derek C. Kruger
Master Mariner
Please let me explain; Years ago there was training programs that sailors had to follow in order to advance upward within the industry. This is very rare to say the lease these days and now that the STCW requires the new generation of sailors to be licensed as "Bridge Watch Keeping Certificate" as the first step. What does this mean. It simply says that a person that intends to work on a boat / ship is required to "check mark" a questionnaire of not more then thirty questions / answers. A first year novas canoer could pass between paddle strokes, it is how easy. Now armed with this "BWK" certificate, the companies require you to sign these young canidates on as (ABS) able body seamen. None know anything regarding how to make fast a mooring rope, or how to apply a rope stopper. Yes, most not to knowing how to tie a nautical knot. The regulations also states that this certificate is not an "ABS Proficiency Certificate." Knowing this you are up against the system / company. Let something go wrong by giving these new sailors a job that they should know how to do but can not. Evently someone gets hurt because of their lack of knowledge of what they were to do. Now put yourself in a position that the company has placed you in, for accepting these new breed of sailors. You also accept liabilities that are far reaching should this injury result in death. I personally have come to experience this, all because one man did not do what he was told because of the lack of experience he was supposed to have. This lead to legal action and a Coast Guard Investigation that lasted for two years. Only at that time was the findings released that said that this deceased man died becaused of his our action and inexperience.
This system that created this problem ie; STCW and the Companies that go forward by placing you in a difficult position all be it because they really don't give a dam, as long as the job gets done. Nor do they come to the defence of the Ship's Master, as they / owners refuse to take blame for their short comings, is the way I see it.
I have also experienced officers that started out loading a ship that went wrong and came banging at your door to say, that they not sure why the ship is not going to the preloading plan, all because they did not follow the loading plan. This list / history can go on, but there is not enought room here to cover all incidences, so I will stop here.
I have being commanding ships at the age of thirty old, while holding a Master's Certificate at the age of twenty-six. I am now 62 years old and still commanding ships both very large, medum, and small. I can say with certainty that my retirement is just around the corner and I am darn glad of it. To be a teacher is one thing of which I truely enjoy, when you have those who really want to learn. There are and will be others that don't want to know regardless. If they make a mistake of which some do, you must remember "the buck stops at the Master's door to settle claims made against the owners, or by the grieving parties" !!
Captain Derek C. Kruger
Master Mariner
Please excuse the first text published, as the system
automatically sent this before proof reading of same:
John, I would like to say thank you for your comments as to the article I deposited on your web site sometime ago, regarding qualifying mariners in the art of seamanship. I would like to say that "Ship Masters" today are required to be not only good listeners, but good teachers as well. However when it comes time to giving direction regarding the running of the ship safely, you yourself must not forget what position you are hired for. "A Ship Master / Captain is solely and ultimately responsible for the safe operation of all merchant ships, or other vessels he commands." In a manner of speaking the buck stops here, for all of those in this command position, regardless of what ship he is in command of. Under the new rules of ISM and ISPS the Master/ Captain must answer not only to the company, but that of Governmental and outside Agencies. Failure to run a ship in a proper manner could see the Master face charges from actions not of his own doing. However there are times as Master / Captain this can be a rewarding position to be in. It can also be the worst nightmare one can ever hope or want to experience. All be it due to the lack of seamanship that is dying art, due to inexperienced crew as stated before.
Please let me explain; Years ago there was training programs that sailors had to follow in order to advance upward within the industry. This is very rare to say the least these days and now that the STCW requires the new generation of sailors to be licensed with a "Bridge Watch Keeping Certificate" as the first step. What does this mean. It simply says that a person that is intending to work on a boat / ship is required to "check mark" a questionnaire of not more then thirty questions / answers. A first year novas canoeist could pass between paddle strokes, it is that easy. Now armed with this "BWK" certificate, the companies require you to sign these young candidates on as (ABS) able body seamen. Very few of them know anything regarding how to make fast a mooring rope, or how to apply a rope stopper. Yes, most do not know how to tie a nautical knot and need to be shown. The regulation also states that this certificate is not an "A.B.S. Proficiency Certificate." Knowing this you are up against the system / company. Let something go wrong by giving these new sailors a job that they should know how to do, but can not. Eventually someone gets hurt, all because of their lack of knowledge of what they were to do. Now put yourself in a position that the company has placed you in, for accepting this new breed of sailors as A.B.S.. You also accept the liabilities that are far reaching should this injury result in death. I personally have come to experience this. All because one man did not do what he was told, because of the lack of experience he was supposed to have. This lead to legal action and a Coast Guard Investigation that lasted for two years. Only at that time was the findings released, that stated that this deceased man died because of his our actions and inexperience. He left behind a wife and two children without a father and a husband.
The system that created this problem i.e.; STCW and the Companies that go forward by placing you in a difficult position, all be it because they really don't give a dam, as long as the job gets done. Nor do they come to the defence of the Ship's Master as they refuse to except or take the blame for their short comings, is the way I experienced it.
I have also experienced officers that started out loading a ship that went wrong and came banging on my door, only to say that they not sure why the loading is not going to the preloading plan. It became clear that they did not follow the loading plan as approved by the Master. I will stop here as there is not enough room to cover all incidences, nor do I want to think about it all.
I have been commanding ships since the age of thirty years old, while holding a Master's Certificate at the age of twenty-six. I am now 62 years old and still commanding ships, of which some being very large to medium, and smaller. Looking ahead I can say with certainty that my retirement is just around the corner, and I am darn glad of it. To be a teacher is one thing of which I truly enjoy when I have those who really want to learn. Therefore I take endless hours to show seamen and officers alike. I never kept a close mine and I am prepared to listen to all, regardless of age or experience. However there are others that don't want to know regardless this makes me wonder why I even try. Seamen regardless of rank or position will make mistakes as we all have done this before, I included. You must remember that "the buck stops at the Master's door whether to settle questions or claims made against the owners, or by the other grieving parties" !!
Captain Derek C. Kruger
Master Mariner
Unfortunately I understand exactly what you are concerned about. With a similar background I expected bigger and better things as I rose from bunk room to the pilot house and quit chipping paint and started plotting star sights. My tutors the 6-8 Masters of yester- years told me of their life at sea. The conditions were bad and most crews except for a few were equally bad. My only solution was to set an example and make sure I was knowledgeable in my reports. If I was the problem I would rather hear it from the crew than the boss. Management has a different view of those at sea. As Assistant Marine Superintendent I could only listen to the captains and mates and then scheme how I could help their cause. The door always opens when something bad happens, just make sure you are not caught on the outside when it closes. Stupid people do dumb things, but the smarter they get the more complicated their errors become. Until I was captain and totally responsible I had no idea how little authority I actually had. I learned that authority could not do it alone. I took it upon myself to became a listener, teacher and example and hoped that some crew members realized that as capatin I was also part of the crew. I never succeeded with everyone, but I did get a number of conversions and survived three ships as captain and team leader. It was my way to survive and still keep being paid. Derek, at 82 I wake almost every night remembering a situation I handled poorly and now I see clearly, how I could have handled it better.
Regards,
John
Please excuse the first text published, as the system
automatically sent this before proof reading of same:
John, I would like to say thank you for your comments as to the article I deposited on your web site sometime ago, regarding qualifying mariners in the art of seamanship. I would like to say that "Ship Masters" today are required to be not only good listeners, but good teachers as well. However when it comes time to giving direction regarding the running of the ship safely, you yourself must not forget what position you are hired for. "A Ship Master / Captain is solely and ultimately responsible for the safe operation of all merchant ships, or other vessels he commands." In a manner of speaking the buck stops here, for all of those in this command position, regardless of what ship he is in command of. Under the new rules of ISM and ISPS the Master/ Captain must answer not only to the company, but that of Governmental and outside Agencies. Failure to run a ship in a proper manner could see the Master face charges from actions not of his own doing. However there are times as Master / Captain this can be a rewarding position to be in. It can also be the worst nightmare one can ever hope or want to experience. All be it due to the lack of seamanship that is a dying art, due to inexperienced crew as stated before.
Please let me explain; Years ago there was training programs that sailors had to follow in order to advance upward within the industry. This is very rare to say the least these days and now that the STCW requires the new generation of sailors to be licensed with a "Bridge Watch Keeping Certificate" as the first step. What does this mean. It simply says that a person that is intending to work on a boat / ship is required to "check mark" a questionnaire of not more then thirty questions / answers. A first year novas canoeist could pass between paddle strokes, it is that easy. Now armed with this "BWK" certificate, the companies require you to sign these young candidates on as (ABS) able body seamen. Very few of them know anything regarding how to make fast a mooring rope, or how to apply a rope stopper. Yes, most do not know how to tie a nautical knot and need to be shown. The regulation also states that this certificate is not an "A.B.S. Proficiency Certificate." Knowing this you are up against the system / company. Let something go wrong by giving these new sailors a job that they should know how to do, but can not. Eventually someone gets hurt, all because of their lack of knowledge of what they were to do. Now put yourself in a position that the company has placed you in, for accepting this new breed of sailors as A.B.S.. You also accept the liabilities that are far reaching should this injury result in death. I personally have come to experience this. All because one man did not do what he was told, because of the lack of experience he was supposed to have. This lead to legal action and a Coast Guard Investigation that lasted for two years. Only at that time was the findings released, that stated that this deceased man died because of his our actions and inexperience. He left behind a wife and two children without a father and a husband.
The system that created this problem i.e.; STCW and the Companies that go forward by placing you in a difficult position, all be it because they really don't give a dam, as long as the job gets done. Nor do they come to the defence of the Ship's Master as they refuse to except or take the blame for their short comings, is the way I experienced it.
I have also experienced officers that started out loading a ship that went wrong and came banging on my door, only to say that they are not sure why the loading is not going to the preloading plan. It became clear that they did not follow the loading plan as approved by the Master. I will stop here as there is not enough room to cover all incidences, nor do I want to think about it all.
I have been commanding ships since the age of thirty years old, while holding a Master's Certificate at the age of twenty-six. I am now 62 years old and still commanding ships, of which some being very large to medium, and smaller. Looking ahead I can say with certainty that my retirement is just around the corner, and I am darn glad of it. To be a teacher is one thing of which I truly enjoy when I have those who really want to learn. Therefore I take endless hours to show seamen and officers alike. I never kept a close mine and I am prepared to listen to all, regardless of age or experience. However there are others that don't want to know regardless, this makes me wonder why I even try. Seamen regardless of rank or position will make mistakes as we all have done this before, I included. You must remember that "the buck stops at the Master's door whether to settle questions or claims made against the owners, or by the other grieving parties" !!
Captain Derek C. Kruger
Master Mariner
Thanks,
Eric
Regardless of route to the bridge, it is up to the individual. I am a mixture of both routes and feel my few achievements were because I was available at the right time and was qualified; later, experience helped. Education today is more important than in the past because the industry is geared to electronics and automation. At 36 years of age, I don’t think you’d be happy in a college unless you had a role, other than just a student. That is a possibility. See what offers you get from academia.
There are many opportunities to get started. Pick up copies of Maritime Reporter, Pacific Maritime Magazine, or Marine News they have all kinds of jobs etc. Piney Point, Maryland is an excellent union operated school and produces a good product. On the internet try “Maritime Jobs.com” there are jobs today.
Again if were you I would start by getting a job with MSTS (Navy) or some non union employer and try the business for a test period. You may not like it. The glamour is mostly gone; conditions are good, but the work is either hard or boring. Cruise lines are hiring constantly. You’ll need to get seaman’s papers and that alone may discourage you. Lastly you can hang around the waterfront and ask questions maybe some one will feel sorry for you and give you some better advice. And, if you still want to go to sea, don’t give up, the opportunity is there if you persevere. JGD
—thye ar4e not hiringuas e theyare not interested.ou wanto .The answer to your query is up to you. There are factors that one should consider and decisions one must make. At age 36, you are probably too old to be accepted for enrollment in a state or federal maritime school. But that does not mean you should write to each one and shop. Nor does that mean I recommend a school. First academies provide a type of education that academically prepares one to pass the license exams and provide an encounter with most factions of the business. The comradeship is outstanding and its connections are cherished and can be enjoyed for years. As a undergraduate, you of course acquire a college education; even the C students are smarter than most. But in you case, wasted.
On the other hand with your background one can apply for a job with MSTS for example pr go to Piney Point and pick up the basics and apply yourself at sea for several years and see if this is what you really want to do. If you are married then you have an additional problem trying to keep a marriage alive. Life at sea is not difficult except when you are not busy. A god student can pass the time in study and practicing new skills, but that precludes being one of the guys and be sociable.
Based on your responses, I will investigate PMI.
One point that has me a bit unsettled is the idea that the "glamor" of sea life is no more. I admit that all jobs have negative sides. Has automation really taken the attraction away from sea life? Tugs and service vessels seem to be areas where there might be daily challenges that keep the job interesting. Am I mistaken here? I suspect that the more interaction one has with land and other vessels, the more interesting the work, as opposed to long voyages on autopilot. If any of you were entering the workforce now, which area would you enter for the greatest satisfaction and enjoyment?
By the way, I am an insulin dependent diabetic, so any military related employment is out. I just received my MMD, so at least that hurdle is out of the way.
Again, I truly appreciate your thoughts.
Eric
Please excuse the first text published, as the system
automatically sent this before proof reading of same:
John, I would like to say thank you for your comments as to the article I deposited on your web site sometime ago, regarding qualifying mariners in the art of seamanship. I would like to say that "Ship Masters" today are required to be not only good listeners, but good teachers as well. However when it comes time to giving direction regarding the running of the ship safely, you yourself must not forget what position you are hired for. "A Ship Master / Captain is solely and ultimately responsible for the safe operation of all merchant ships, or other vessels he commands." In a manner of speaking the buck stops here, for all of those in this command position, regardless of what ship he is in command of. Under the new rules of ISM and ISPS the Master/ Captain must answer not only to the company, but that of Governmental and outside Agencies. Failure to run a ship in a proper manner could see the Master face charges from actions not of his own doing. However there are times as Master / Captain this can be a rewarding position to be in. It can also be the worst nightmare one can ever hope or want to experience. All be it due to the lack of seamanship that is dying art, due to inexperienced crew as stated before.
Please let me explain; Years ago there was training programs that sailors had to follow in order to advance upward within the industry. This is very rare to say the least these days and now that the STCW requires the new generation of sailors to be licensed with a "Bridge Watch Keeping Certificate" as the first step. What does this mean. It simply says that a person that is intending to work on a boat / ship is required to "check mark" a questionnaire of not more then thirty questions / answers. A first year novas canoeist could pass between paddle strokes, it is that easy. Now armed with this "BWK" certificate, the companies require you to sign these young candidates on as (ABS) able body seamen. Very few of them know anything regarding how to make fast a mooring rope, or how to apply a rope stopper. Yes, most do not know how to tie a nautical knot and need to be shown. The regulation also states that this certificate is not an "A.B.S. Proficiency Certificate." Knowing this you are up against the system / company. Let something go wrong by giving these new sailors a job that they should know how to do, but can not. Eventually someone gets hurt, all because of their lack of knowledge of what they were to do. Now put yourself in a position that the company has placed you in, for accepting this new breed of sailors as A.B.S.. You also accept the liabilities that are far reaching should this injury result in death. I personally have come to experience this. All because one man did not do what he was told, because of the lack of experience he was supposed to have. This lead to legal action and a Coast Guard Investigation that lasted for two years. Only at that time was the findings released, that stated that this deceased man died because of his our actions and inexperience. He left behind a wife and two children without a father and a husband.
The system that created this problem i.e.; STCW and the Companies that go forward by placing you in a difficult position, all be it because they really don't give a dam, as long as the job gets done. Nor do they come to the defence of the Ship's Master as they refuse to except or take the blame for their short comings, is the way I experienced it.
I have also experienced officers that started out loading a ship that went wrong and came banging on my door, only to say that they not sure why the loading is not going to the preloading plan. It became clear that they did not follow the loading plan as approved by the Master. I will stop here as there is not enough room to cover all incidences, nor do I want to think about it all.
I have been commanding ships since the age of thirty years old, while holding a Master's Certificate at the age of twenty-six. I am now 62 years old and still commanding ships, of which some being very large to medium, and smaller. Looking ahead I can say with certainty that my retirement is just around the corner, and I am darn glad of it. To be a teacher is one thing of which I truly enjoy when I have those who really want to learn. Therefore I take endless hours to show seamen and officers alike. I never kept a close mine and I am prepared to listen to all, regardless of age or experience. However there are others that don't want to know regardless this makes me wonder why I even try. Seamen regardless of rank or position will make mistakes as we all have done this before, I included. You must remember that "the buck stops at the Master's door whether to settle questions or claims made against the owners, or by the other grieving parties" !!
Captain Derek C. Kruger
Master Mariner